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Should Sales Teams be Worried? What Generative AI Means for Marketing and Product Teams

• Jake Dunlap & Kevin (KD) Dorsey • Season 1 • Episode 10

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This episode explores how generative AI is transforming marketing and product development, emphasizing its potential to drive creativity and optimize strategies while underscoring the necessity of human oversight. Listeners gain valuable insights on leveraging AI for impactful copywriting, marketing analysis, and product innovation.

• Generative AI's role in writing compelling website copy and product descriptions
• Emphasizing the power of testing and learning in marketing strategies
• AI's ability to enhance emotional engagement in content creation
• The need for data-driven decision-making in marketing practices
• The interplay of human creativity and AI in product innovation
• Bridging the gap between product teams and customer insights
• Encouragement to embrace AI as a transformative tool for businesses

If you are interested in learning more about leveraging ChatGPT and generative AI for sales, join our workshops!

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Connect with Jake: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakedunlap/

Connect with KD: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kddorsey3/

Speaker 1:

All right, what's up everyone, welcome. Episode Numero Cinco we actually next month we're going to Mexico City for spring break. I'm pumped, man. I just hear the best things. Family trip to Mexico City yeah, they do have like a ridiculous amount of Michelin star city. Yeah, um, they do have like a ridiculous amount of michelin star uh restaurants.

Speaker 2:

Food in mexico city is amazing. I'm pumped. I'm so pumped you've been no, never. That's my point. I'm like I gotta go. All right, I got, I got a list for you.

Speaker 1:

We love mexico. Oh, dude, that makes me very happy. Okay, all right, so I'll get the list from you. Um man, we got the super bowl coming up valentine's day too, for everybody, so shout out, um to I'm already using ChatGBT for all the love notes.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Little love notes. Man, did ChatGBT help me on Christmas? Yeah, man, let's be honest, I don't know if my wife listens or not. Maybe she does. It came up with this idea. It's like what would be a great present for my kids? Here are the ages of my kids for my wife. So kids for here are the ages of my kids for my wife. So listen to this. So, uh, mommy, daughter photo shoot fuck no brainer. Uh, time capsule for your son and your mom for his high school graduation. My goodness, I'm like. Goodness, I'm like done, okay, done like. These are the best I did. Oh, um, if she has a garden, paint a workbench for her, for the garden.

Speaker 2:

I'm melting right now.

Speaker 1:

All of these have been purchased. All of those were purchased Home runs, so that was fantastic. So last week's or a few weeks ago episode why generic AI is not always your best friend and how easy it is to get started with custom GBTs so hopefully everyone got a lot of value out of that and you know. Today, look, we're going to talk about not just you know our normal sales topics. We're actually going to talk about marketing and product teams and how they should be thinking about generative AI and what are some of the trends that we think it means for them and, obviously, the impact on sales, right. So we're always going to try to bring it home to you know how this is going to impact you.

Speaker 1:

But if you're a marketer, ceo, entrepreneur, product manager, et cetera, I think you're going to forward this over, if you're not, to your marketing or product team, because I think this episode is going to give them a ton of kind of interesting insights into how teams are and can be using generative AI. So it should be a good one. All right, kd, as usual, every week we've got a, or every every episode we've got a DM question of the week and it says I'm a small business owner and I'm curious how can I use generative AI to write my website copy and product descriptions? I'm not sure where to start and I think if you're in sales, you can think about what's the application for you. You know, maybe you want it to help you write a pitch or whatever it is, but how would you answer this small business owner?

Speaker 2:

So I love this. I mean, I've sold SMB for the last seven, eight years now, so I love this space. The easiest way to get started is to find websites you like. So find websites that you like, what are other ones in your space, in your industry or outside your industry, but like top performing companies or website, and take theirs as inspiration. You can feed that into chat, gpt.

Speaker 2:

So I want you to review these websites, right, so it gives some context. Then, from there, I would like to write my website modeling, very similar copy, style, spacing, et cetera. Here's what I do, right, and then then give your website, but then, before you ask it to write the copy, ask it to. Now I would like you to ask me a few more questions to get a better idea of what I do and who I sell to before you write the copy. So I'd start there and then it's gonna start to spit everything out. And then you actually you gave this tip a few episodes ago and I was like I had never thought about that of like telling it to like try a little bit harder.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I thought it was so clever of like okay, that's good, now try a little bit harder to really connect with my audience X, y, z, but that'd be the easiest. Give it websites that you do like, ask it to interview you a bit more about your customer, who you serve, why you do what you do. Get the website copy and then from there ask it to try a little bit harder, connect a little bit more emotionally with maybe who you sell to or whatever your service is, and boom you'll you'll have an amazing website.

Speaker 1:

That's right. And I think, on the product descriptions, you take a very, very similar approach, right, if you're trying to get it to talk about the product. You know. Very similar approach, right, if you're trying to get it to talk about the product. You know, you know great. So here's what this thing does, you know make it really interesting for a CFO, make it really interesting for a COO. Do this.

Speaker 1:

And then and what I always do, you know I do this all the time we use chat DBT for some of the show notes here it's like make it more provocative, make it more this, make it more this. I mean, I constantly I'll ask ChatGBT for concepts and I'm like give me three complete wild cards that were like so, because, by the way, chatgbt's version of provocative is like PG to PG-13, somewhere in there. So you kind of got to push it a little bit. Look, I understand those are the safe and that's what I'll do. Like that, those sound like safe descriptions. Give me a radically persuasive flavor of this too. And, yeah, I can just do it for you.

Speaker 2:

One of my favorites to add when I'm doing marketing copy is to give it marketers. I respect so some of the best copywriters of all time right, the Dan Kennedy's, the Eben Pagan's, the Ryan Dice's of the world. Gary Halbert, I want you to be inspired by Gary Halbert and Dan Kennedy when you write this, and it changes the whole dynamic. So go give it good copywriters to imitate and it'll run with it.

Speaker 1:

That's right and I think a lot of this is. You're a small business owner, owner or anyone just make sure that you're pushing it. You know you don't need to talk to it like Google. You need to be specific. You need to say exactly what you want and say it different ways and try it different ways and you know. And then and then eventually you start to learn these little hacks of like how to how to push it.

Speaker 2:

So but keep it going. Small business owner Keep going. You're already ahead of the game. If you're thinking about it this way, I love that.

Speaker 1:

So, all right, man, let's jump into it. Talk a little marketing, talk a little product here. You know, look, I think, look, generative AI is certainly coming for some roles in marketing. And look for me, man, kind of the first application I see for a lot of I call it AI companies is around copywriting and tone matching. You know, I did a talk back in October last year and you know, ok, have any of you created custom in GPT's marketer raises her hand.

Speaker 1:

She's like yeah, we fed it. Like you know, 35 of our blog posts to do tone, and she's like it's awesome. So, like, how much of marketing? Look, we talked about sales enablement to you know a few episodes ago. How much of marketing in the future do we think gen AI can either augment or replace? Because I mean, look, think about it. We're already using it to design these customized experience. You talked about the website copy. You know, optimizing real time. So so what's the limit here? Oh, boy, and I'm not gonna say what's the limit in three years, Because who the hell knows, hell knows, but what's the limit like in 2025?

Speaker 2:

So in 2025, I think people are actually going to be very surprised how high the limit is, and the reason for this is because marketers, historically, are significantly better testers than sales teams. Agreed. It's easier to test in marketing and so what they have access to, data wise, is unreal, right From click tracking to eyeball tracking, to click through rates, to scroll time bounce. They've split tested five different headlines, so I actually think it's easier I'll say in quotes to actually now extrapolate that because the data is so much more specific and it involves data and human behavior. Where do people look on the website? Where do they stop? Well, if I built an app that said, okay, where do people stop scrolling? They stop scrolling here. Well, now I know I need to put some sort of hook there that would keep people going. Right, the ability to create custom potential websites we're doing all this inbound, outbound stuff right now.

Speaker 1:

So content-wise, it's already really, really there and so do you think of it as so content? You know the people that are content, or seo blog. You know, would you know is it? You know we still need those people, but you know productivity is going to be, you know, 3x.

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely Productivity, and you actually mentioned it on an earlier episode of. Like you know, not only does AI let you do more, but if you're doing it right, it lets you to do more and better. Yeah, right, whereas I can learn from the best out there and create some of this copy, I still think for 2025, it still needs human oversight, totally For sure. It needs recycling, for sure. There's so many examples of companies that are like oh, seo, so they made all these ai generated like content and it like ranked them early and then it got smashed, yeah, by google and punished.

Speaker 2:

Don't do that. Don't just go and generate like 3 000 articles and think you're good, like we still need human oversight there. But I mean, the content can and should be better. It should be able to do more tailored content to your personas, because that's where I think most companies at least. With blog content it's always very generic, whereas, like if you had a blog, whatever say you sold to sellers and sales leaders and marketers, you could do different types of content for each really super quickly and then take the data.

Speaker 2:

What are people downloading? Okay, splinter that. Okay that one's not landing. Okay, splinter that. And we can actually now splinter the content, which I also think is going to be a very, very big use case. And you know, I think I'll throw this one back to you around. Like creativity, you know, people are like, oh, like, humans are creative. Ai is not.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, would I have came up with a time capsule for my son to give my, to create with my wife to open together eight years later? Uh, no, no. And that is a. It is a ridiculously good idea. That's so great, you know. So, um, yeah, I think on that.

Speaker 1:

I think that's so great, you know. So, um, yeah, I think on that, I think that's a really good call. On the marketing side, you know again, is I think the brand strategy, the creative, the, the different takes to also just brainstorm and ideate. You know, around different campaign, hey, campaigns, you know, here's our highest performing things. This is what's worked. This is what hasn't worked. Here's the data. You know, if you want to create a custom GPT, you could, but you know what are two or three break the bank ideas that can make all of this better. Now, get wilder, get more creative. Now give me this.

Speaker 1:

I mean, we literally created a new product for this year called, you know, we started to talk about hey, here's the goals for our company, this is our goals for our consulting, here's some of the challenges that we're better package and it's like push. I was like more, like that's not provocative enough, like that will resonate with PEs, and just push. And we've created a whole new product called revenue health as a service, which is just, I didn't come up with our has. I mean, they came up with our has, revenue health as earth. And I'm like, oh, my god, this is exactly what we've been trying to to to think about is like this idea that you need to, on a quarterly basis, be looking at these kind of key five metrics and constantly deploying fixes to your sales org, and it's resonating. And so, to me, if you're a marketer, there's no shame in this.

Speaker 2:

No, I would be leaning into this heavily and again, as I was saying, the opener marketers have so much more and better data than sellers do. If I know what my top keyword searches are, I can do a lot of of that from a marketing standpoint from ads to content, to videos, to images, to ebooks, to whatever else like. There's so much that can be done with that and this will be for a whole nother episode. But even with where outbound is going like outbound, almost turning into like an outbound marketing channel for most people it is.

Speaker 1:

It's like we've had people that you know we're doing all these, you know sales, loft, outreach implementations and and they really just want to use it like hubspot. And I'm like no, no, no, like well, the sales reps are incentivized to just close it and you're like, well, you should actually be using your marketing automation platform for that. You know, and I saw here, like you know, coca-cola, for example, like they're already using ai for automating ad creation. Right, here's the data, here's what's working. Social media content commercial.

Speaker 2:

Actually, it was the first time I've seen it where I actually said created with real. It was like real ai or real magic ai, like it was actually. Oh, did it really actually said it in the commercial? Like it was in the bottom and then it was like how they like wrapped up the commercial. I saw it for the first time ever. I was like ooh, is that how it's going to have to be? Do we have to say that it was created? Maybe, but the commercial was pretty dang good.

Speaker 2:

And you're like whoa, you know. So I just I think marketers because they have so much data that they can leverage around what I love about marketing If I wasn't in sales, I'd be in marketing, I would be there. They have data on what humans do when not observed.

Speaker 2:

Sellers we only get the observation, what you said to me while I'm there. Marketers know what people are actually searching for. Marketers know what people are actually reading. Marketers know whether a smiling face or a sad face drives more. Marketers know three products versus two products. They're testing everything. I think if you are doing we talk about context a lot here Marketers that have the context oh my God, they can do so much with this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think, if I think about marketing, where I think it's going to be interesting is your opinion-based marketers. You're like, well, your content has to have the. Again, you talked about the enemy of getting shit done is trying to be great and perfection. There's like 50 versions of that. You know. I see a lot of marketers where they're so focused on this and the brand guidelines and that, this and that, and it's like why are you focusing on these things? Like you should be focused on learning, using data and, again, making more data-based incisions.

Speaker 1:

Not trying to feel like your opinion should be the guiding light, and I I think you know not that sales and sales leaders have the same problem. Um, but I I feel like that's the danger for a lot of marketers. If you look yourself in the mirror, are you the kind of marketer who is like, you know, yeah, this all makes sense, but the human needs to do that, and that's you know, coca-cola is a good example. It's like, um, they're, they have a creative team that remains for, like, oversight and direction. So we're not talking about eliminating this, but, again, like the quality of production, how many things you can put out. You know the creativity pieces it's just going to. It's just better that the combo is just better.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's what we talked about, actually, the last episode. The difference we like custom and generic that's why Coca-Cola still has the team over it is it can prompt all day long like here's what we want the commercial to be and you're going to get version one. World-class marketers will know what to say. Back to say okay, no, no, no, no she needs to be smiling. We actually want a better blend between this, that and the other than it goes off and does. Right, so it's still that context coming from humans in 2025.

Speaker 2:

But, oh boy, 2026, 2027, you know, like, because we've talked about this, this is actually when we're doing the webinar series of like content, like if you have a content team, ai is going to get pretty dang close to being able to do that by the end of 2025 of like a content focused marketing team and the ones that are good at it, they'll be able to leverage it. But it's going to. It's absolutely going to knock those things out, from eBooks to downloads, to web pages, to blog articles, to ad creation, like all that is content backed by thousands actually it'd be millions of data points for context. That's quick iterations all day long.

Speaker 1:

It can do it, yeah, and then again, like you can create custom GPTs to quickly get it to know your tone much faster. Or, you know, you can think about creating it, for you know, each of your executives has their own custom GPT for creating content based on their preferences. So I think there's just a lot of applications here for people that are trying to think about how to supercharge marketing. You know, five years from now, you still have lots of humans. Five years from now, you still have lots of humans.

Speaker 1:

But as we start to blend context with data and the ability, where generative ai is not, is it? You can't really look at all the data together and go deep on the inferences. You know, like it's okay at it right now, but five years from now, if this is where we're at, like the ability to look at the context that it's been given, the historical trends and then making more and more recommendations based on improved context, that you're giving it as the marketer, and utilizing the data in real time to not make, you know, well, if you talk 12% less, you'll do this. I mean, we're going to get there. And so, as you as a marketer, you know it's interesting you talked about hiring in the last episode, a role for GTM. I think every marketing person should hire that too Of like, hey, what are the custom GPTs we should be creating? How can we augment? You know Jake's job to do more.

Speaker 2:

That role for me is a no brainer for marketing and I wish I knew what to call this role, but like it is because, also for me as the CRO, this role is touching marketing too, right? Because marketing roles to me, CS roles to me, sales role to me. This marketing is GTM too. This role is looking there as well and going, okay, what are we learning from marketing? Even like I talked about this a long time ago of like how I leverage inbound for outbound, right? So when I'm building an outbound motion, the first place I look is the inbound side.

Speaker 2:

If we have an inbound motion at all, it's like, okay, what are the highest click through ads? What are the short form and long tail keywords? What are our most viewed blog pages? And I'm using that to craft my outbound strategy. If I know what people are searching for, that makes a really good subject line or first sentence. And if I know what our highest performing headlines are on ads, I know that makes a really good hook within the email. And if I know what personas are inbounding the most on our website, I know who to target outbound. So I leverage inbound heavily to build an outbound motion.

Speaker 1:

Now I can do that all together which is just going to be wild, and you can use it to create, to improve inbound. Once you see the nuance and, by the way, I don't think very many sales and marketing teams are doing any of this at all Get them on level, you know. Yeah, I think it's like both can inform both. How many marketing teams are going and looking at the outbound sequence performance and saying like, oh, okay, that hit. And then vice versa, how many SDR leaders are going. So I, like, I love that idea.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk product man. Let's talk about the influence on product team. You know, can AI, you know, innovate faster than a human product? You know, and you know, I see, you know, like you mentioned this, I can see where people are clicking, I can see where they're scrolling, I can do all those things. And you know, obviously, look, I think most product teams are doing a flavor of that. But like, isn't there a world where it's doing a ton of the heavy lifting, where it's like, let me, like, you know, this is how people are using your application, for example, like they did this, they did this, they did this. Nobody is looking at this feature.

Speaker 2:

Like nobody is doing this, this, this and this, so like, so so this one and anyone that's worked with me knows like I'm a word stickler, so I'm gonna call it a word in this question and I think it might change the direction. Do I believe it will innovate faster than a human product team? I don't yet, because even the examples you gave were reactive to me. Innovation is creating things that have not been done, for I think it can build faster, potentially, than a human yeah, optimize what's known faster, okay, no one's using the, I think it can but innovate.

Speaker 2:

I don't think next year it's going to innovate faster than a human team can it use the creativity though, couldn't it?

Speaker 1:

I mean, can it, if you think about the combo of the two here's? Here's what's working, man. What are some things that we could build, create, create or innovate? Um, that could improve that we should be adding to our product roadmap that we're not thinking about.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So that's where you know, if we listen to customers like that's what I want to use it for, even with my own teams, is like go go to product and say here's what customers are saying yeah, the the product. Here's what they're saying on calls where they're not moving forward, where they're saying like one of the things I love to look for in transcripts is the phrase if you just, if you just had, if you just could, if you were just able to. I love to find that in transcripts because that's customers telling us If you could just connect to X, y and Z, a human still would have to tell AI to look for those things. Sure. So the nuance here is I don't know if it will innovate faster, but do I believe it can suggest I do? Do I believe it can actually make changes if I tell it what to look for? Hey, if no one's doing x, y and z, let me know. Let me know, I absolutely think it can do that. I don't know.

Speaker 2:

On the new opportunities, I'm curious your take there of like, actually, without someone telling it, obviously, if I tell it to, if I say, hey, what are some what you're so good at asking it questions, I wouldn't even think to ask about. I was like, hey, we're struggling in these areas, we deal with these people. I want to create a new product over here. That is innovation that you caused. You know what I'm saying. Like, you led the innovation from there. What was it? Bhas or something?

Speaker 1:

RHAS, rhas.

Speaker 2:

Revenue Health as a Service Right. It created it, but you let it there through the questions. So I'm curious your take on its ability to create opportunities versus just identify places that are lacking.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean, I think you could create a custom GPT and you told it its job was to be challenging and to be, you know, be provocative and to be these things. I think you could take the best parts of brainstorming and white white whiteboarding and I think, hypothetically, not a hundred percent, and but again I think that that that's kind of my thought on this question is, I think, a lot like marketing. I think it's there's going to be a layer of product right, because also, you, you know how this is sometimes people think they want to whatever and a lot of people are like, oh well, if you did this and people, I mean you probably still wouldn't, you know, churn or you wouldn't buy more. So I think there's a human in the loop, but I think we could get there. I think it could help to innovate and like help with creativity and you could, I think you could create a custom GPT. Maybe that would help innovate, maybe, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Product leaders. I'd be curious to hear from y'all on this, because there's like, as a GTM leader, like we're thinking about this all day, like how to do these things. I'd be curious with that word innovate, like what y'all think it can or can't do around innovation, because I do think if you give it the prompts, it could help you do those things, but I'm not sure yet where that will go, because we're already seeing product headcount is shrinking, product job ads are shrinking. Like AI is showing up a lot here on the product side in terms of you know, some of the AI agents and the creation, and you actually just mentioned something there Very interesting. This is my biggest fear by the creation, and you actually just mentioned something there very interesting. This is my biggest fear.

Speaker 2:

By the way, we'll just pull it all open here around ai is at what point do I stop buying things because I can build it internally, right, and so you mentioned right now, customers say if you had this feature, I would stay at what point? Is it so easy to do some of this that I go, I wake up and like I'm working on this right now? We're still early. It was like god, I just need an agent that's going to inspect pipeline, the way I would inspect pipeline. Look for these things. Bubble this up, xyz. Instead of googling product deal management inspection tool, I build it.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that'll happen, you know what like this is my, this is my a lot of niche. If you're a niche gtm or a niche software that solves one specific thing, that's not providing any type of proprietary insights, yeah it's my biggest.

Speaker 2:

It's my biggest, I don't knows. And what ifs around sales and ai over the next five years is what happens when teams can build their own internal tools. And what does that look like when I can say here's exactly what I need and the systems I need it to connect to and what I want it to do and what it needs to look like and who needs to have access to it and how secure it needs to be, and it goes cool and it goes off and build.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, or what will have to happen if you think about most of the tools you buy. They have no context. When you buy outreach, when you buy insert tool gong, whatever, it has no context. And so imagine if it's like well, this is some generic thing, there's this company as a call recording API and I can just program in all the context. It'll probably immediately be better.

Speaker 1:

And again, and you have people who are these GTM support people, you know, if you guys have seen a tool called make, for example, you know Brian on our team isn't like a technical, you know guru, but with make he's like well, I, just he, literally. We have a dev firm that's been working on this journey, a product that we had our call them on Tuesday and 24 hours Brian had used make. He had inserted the custom instructions. We already had had a hundred percent perplexity in make, verse, um uh, chat, gbt, et cetera, and it immediately solved it. The dev team had taken 45 days to and brian got there in 24 hours. And so, yeah, I think the ability to provide context with development and product development, I think is is where it's at yeah, it's going to be very, very interesting to see, because the flip side is also true.

Speaker 2:

It's like oh, if it just had this feature, I'd stay.

Speaker 1:

If that could be a 24-hour turnaround, if that could be yeah, exactly, you know whatever else there I could just spin it up and great.

Speaker 2:

Oh hey, jake, you have this feature yeah, there, it is like because what I want and this will sound creepy, but people understand why I want it I want to have, okay, like uh, y'all don't hate me for this, you'll know why. I'm saying this like an observation bot, like watching my reps work, but it's not big brotherish chill I mean, it sounds a little just let me finish the thought.

Speaker 2:

It's not to see what they are aren't doing or like punish them for things. You see, like where could a tool step in and help? Yeah, that's a no-brainer. Whereas, like it pops, I was like, hey, did you realize that there's seven steps to close out an opportunity I built a one click takes the tall da, da, da da and it closes it. Like I want to observe, where are there manual steps that a tool could step in to do it? That's what I want to observe.

Speaker 2:

Or when I did this at my last company, we built, you know, a tax GPT because, like there were the constant questions getting asked every single day about different FAQs, whatever else. I'd love that to be in asked. So here it is. We've built this out. It's preemptive, it's right there, like that's what. That's why I want to observe my reps more. It's because I know there's places I could build things, oh man, that I just I just don't even know yet, like I just don't even know what could be happening. That's why I want to observe. It's not just a catch no, I get it.

Speaker 1:

You're like yeah, johnny, why didn't you say this?

Speaker 2:

that's not what I'm going. That's why I don't.

Speaker 1:

I'm not a big fan of those like co-pilot, ai things, that where it's like it pops up. Oh, they mentioned zendesk. So now, johnny, here's your battle card.

Speaker 2:

Say this and reps are like ignore, like I'm not which, which is crazy to me, because they should want to have those things, but the use case has always been nobody, and it's a why, like you did, like someone just mentioned the top competitor and here's the best way to handle that competitor, but then people still don't. You know it's tough why, like you did, like someone just mentioned the top competitor and here's the best way to handle that competitor, but then people still don't.

Speaker 1:

You know it's tough to do in real time. I think I think a lot of that is. It's just tough to be present in a conversation. I got asked this question on a podcast last week, or maybe it's a few weeks ago now, about these bots, and I said you know what the real thing is. Train your freaking reps on what a buyer cares about and your main competitors. That's the real solution. Anyway, I digress.

Speaker 1:

So, product, my friends, you know Spotify is already doing some of this stuff. Spotify is, you know, having they've got large data sets right. You know hundreds of millions of users. You know, hey, this is working, this is not. They're doing that, they're having it evaluated. And you know from a product standpoint. Then you know they're sitting on top and their product team is like, ok, bad idea, good idea.

Speaker 1:

So I think a lot of this is the same with marketing. You have to be using it. You have to integrate product improvement. You know, using AI, you know generative AI, right, like, you have to have this to move faster to to as opposed to. You know, yes, yes, listen to calls um. But also to your point about search and and what people are doing it's like it's also what they're doing unobserved yes, you know versus what they think they need. Or you know the executive sponsor is telling us we need this, but when you click or you look at the clicks, they aren't acting like they need that. They're actually like this. So it's this combination of like human element, of like qualitative inspection coupled with the data. So you know, my feedback is look, if you're a product leader, you have to incorporate this. Yeah, you can. Just you'll be able to move so much faster as a part of this, even at the most basic level of listening to a bunch of sales calls and product listen to CS calls.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just like, what are people saying on these QBRs? What are the support tickets coming through? Let it run through the last thousand support tickets and see what are people complaining about, about your own product. Start there of like, what are people asking for? What are people saying is broken? What are those things coming through? Cause there's always there always seems to be that big communication divide between product and customer facing. Always, because there always seems to be that big communication divide between product and customer-facing teams. And I think this is the easiest way to start is to bridge that gap. Yeah, get what the customers and the prospects are saying in front of product to let them see this and go oh, we can do something about that.

Speaker 2:

This was two companies ago at PatientBot where this happened, where there was just a constant complaint coming through and product had no idea about it. It actually came up kind of in passing. I was talking with one of our VPs of engineering and I was like, yeah, someday you'll fix that. They're like wait, what Right? I was like, well, no, the customers hate this. It drives them nuts. It's one of the biggest reasons why people are freaking out. It's like we could fix that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're like that's easy In a week.

Speaker 2:

That's right, they just had no idea about it. So just bridge that gap for comms.

Speaker 1:

But you could, I mean. My guess is, though, had they implemented AI?

Speaker 2:

We didn't have to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, they probably could have now known that a lot faster. You know, like, hey, why are people well, it seems like consistently people click this and then, within two seconds, they then click this to go back. That's something that you could see now. So I think that that's the future there. So, all right, product marketing, product and marketing and product marketing. Hopefully you all have some takeaways on some things that you can do. The answer, as usual, is you need to start to do something now. My marketers think content and you know, can you optimize the quality and quantity of your team product? How can you use it to start to make improvements faster and identify improvements faster? And, you know, maybe, maybe, help a little bit with innovation or at least get you started as a part of it. So, katie, closing thoughts, man.

Speaker 2:

I would, just I would, on the specially for both, I'll say help it, help you, don't be afraid of it, don't, don't run away from it.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Don't get rid of the ego.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's going to take my job. It's like no, no, like, let it help your job for now. Right, give it the context, help it innovate. I think that Christmas story is just perfect. Right, you helped it innovate. Marketers help, let it help you innovate. Let it help you innovate. I think that's the biggest takeaway is, you got to find a way to leverage this, but I posted about this a couple of months ago. Now it's like it's the humans that are the best at what they do that will be able to leverage AI the best, because if you're a great product leader, you have the context no one does it and you know how to get it to innovate. If you're a great marketer, now you have the context that others want to help it innovate. Embrace it.

Speaker 1:

I think for a lot of people that struggle I think a lot of people will fail is because the ego. Well, if I use technology, it's cheating. If I use this and it's probably made this analogy it's probably the same thing people said when Google came about. And you're like, well, I was supposed to go to the library and I got to read a book. You know like I need to. I need to go to LexisNexis, and you know LexisNexis back in the day, you know Alexis Nexus back in the day.

Speaker 1:

Um, and this is just the next iteration of how we solve problems. And so get rid of the ego that it's about getting it right, not being the. You know you're going to get credit for getting it right. Um, as a part of this and for me, I've always been I care about the outcome and if I whatever helps me to generate the best outcome, you know you got it. You got to embrace it.

Speaker 1:

So, um, yeah, man, thanks for joining us everyone. Uh, make sure, if you haven't signed up for the newsletter. Uh, free resource goes a little bit like nerdier on some of the topics to where, if you're somebody who wants to kind of dive into more of, like, the latest and greatest, the newsletter is great for that. Um. A couple other links to check out. In the show notes as well, too, there's some different workshops and things that we have um available, so make sure to go check those out. And yeah, kd, another one of the books. I'm excited, man. All right y'all. Thanks for tuning in, thanks for joining us and we will see you all in the next episode.

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Jake Dunlap

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