AI-Powered Seller

Why Most AI Deployments Fail — And How Elite Teams Actually Win

• Jake Dunlap

Share episode

🔥 Why Most AI Deployments Fail (And How Real Sellers Win With It) 🤖
Is AI actually helping sales teams — or just creating more noise? Why are so many companies struggling to get ROI from their AI investments? The brutal truth: it's often caused by broken processes, bad expectations, and outdated leadership. 😬

In this episode, Jake is joined by Ryan Cahill, a veteran GTM architect and operator who has helped scale revenue teams across SaaS. Ryan breaks down exactly why AI fails in most organizations — and what high-performing teams do differently to turn AI into a true competitive advantage.

He reveals the tactical playbook that top teams use to improve outbound, accelerate deal cycles, and make reps instantly smarter using AI.

🔥 What you'll learn in this episode (Don't miss the real truth behind AI!):
✨ The Core Problem: Why companies expect AI to be a magic wand — and why that mindset guarantees failure.
🧠 The Setup Mistake: The missing pre-work every team skips that destroys ROI before AI ever launches.
⚙️ Human-in-the-Loop: How elite teams combine rep judgment + AI to outperform both humans and automation alone.
📈 Outbound Breakthroughs: Why AI now outperforms template-based SDR outreach — and how reps can stay relevant.
🔍 Instant Expertise: How reps can now learn any industry in 10 minutes and run world-class discovery.
🏆 The GTM Advantage: How AI lets leaders analyze their business, pivot faster, and double down on what actually works.

This isn’t about more tools — it’s about better strategy, better execution, and smarter humans using AI the right way.

👉 Tune in and learn how to become a modern, AI-powered, outcome-driven seller!

SPEAKER_00:

When it comes to outbound, that's what I'm seeing is AI will if we keep going down the path, AI will replace a lot of SDRs. And it's only the ones that know how to call and have a conversation and who know how to customize better than AI that are gonna win. That's my hot take. My hot take on top of funnel. What about you?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I I 100% agree. It will outscale you, it'll out-execute you, it'll out-template you, it'll out-generic you every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Where I think the the gap for people that go, okay, but how do I do it better? I think again, it's that cumin in the loop. It's like, well, are you expecting AI to create the cadence?

SPEAKER_00:

Then you're making a mistake. Welcome everybody to another episode of the AI Powered Seller. Today's episode is AI is only as smart as your go to market strategy. Today's episode is going to be a very interesting one for my leaders out there, for my reps who are trying to think more strategically about how to run their business. What I'm really excited about is today's guest, Mr. Ryan Cahill. Ryan's been an SVP of enterprise sales, done a ton of go-to-market consulting. He's a CRO of GTM Advisors. He's helped more than a hundred SaaS companies, including LinkedIn, Cowanly, Dropbox, build scalable, data-driven GTM systems. And what you're going to really get out of today's episode is where to think about the key areas to get started around what's going to actually move the needle for my business right now. In a lot of the other episodes, we'll talk tactically about different agents and different assistants. But today's episode, we're going to help you to understand, you know, what is a healthy AI-powered GTM system look like? What does a RevOps leader look like in today's day and age? And exactly where should I be thinking about getting started if I'm in kind of both like the rep, the leader, or the operational role. So really excited to jump in. And thank you, Ryan, for joining me. Pumped to have you on the show. AI-powered seller. Hey, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me. Looking forward to the conversation. Yeah, pleasure to be here. You've had a chance, you know, in your current role and other roles to see AI or tools that look or feel or say they're AI, right? Which is a whole other Mythbuster show we could do. Shout out to Mythbusters if you know that show. Yeah. So why do you think organizations, I've got my take, but why do you think individuals and organizations are struggling to get the ROI in particular from various AI deployments? And then maybe false fast follow is like, are there any culprits you see as like the typical pitfall? It's usually we do this thing first.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good question. I think I think from my experience, what I've seen is I I think maybe even the the setup is where things start to go wrong. I think the setup being that there is the assumption that AI is this magic wand and go to market. And that somehow when I wave my magic wand, it will solve all my problems, right? And and I think that's part of just a misunderstanding of what AI really is. And I think the function that AI practically plays, for at least my point of view, for many years to come. AI, in my opinion, is a tool. A tool requires a user, and a user has to leverage said tool to deliver an outcome, right? And so I think the the perspective that AI on its own can solve a problem is one of the gotchas where it's like, we don't need a human or we don't need data infrastructure, or we don't need a process. We can just add AI and AI will kind of autonomously solve problems. It's like that doesn't exist today and may not exist in my lifetime. I don't know. We'll see. So I think that's one thing is just the expectation of what you're gonna get out of it. I think the other thing is the expectation that somehow you can adopt a new tool, technology, capability, and not do any pre-work whatsoever. That's just silly. You don't implement a new product without doing some pre-work, you don't roll out new methodology without doing pre-work, you don't train people like you need to get some structure in place. So if you want AI to, in most cases, increase capacity, increase speed, and deliver an enhanced set of execution, well, then you need to have at least a launching point of what do you want it to do? And what does good look like? How do I know if the thing is performing the way I want it to perform? And I think where I've seen people go wrong is, and it's I don't think it's necessarily the tool or the technology's fault, is they're like, oh, we turned it on and now it writes our emails for us. And it's like, well, maybe, maybe it could, or maybe it can get you to 80%, or maybe it can get you from 80% to 90%, but like it isn't gonna just do it for you. And I think that's where I think I've seen a lot of people go, like, well, I tried it and it didn't work. And it's like, well, maybe, but maybe it was set up to fail from the beginning that you didn't thoughtfully consider what this thing would do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think for what I see is some type of in-between there, where a lot of what I talk to clients about in our and our current customers is look, AI, and again, I'm talking specifically like Gen AI, right? And we'll and we can let's we'll get into the nuances too around, you know, like I'm implementing Gong versus, you know, I'm implementing Chat GPT as an infrastructure. Right. Is that I think what companies need to realize is Gen AI is changing the way that people do their jobs. It's not I like where I would, I don't know if it's disagree, is I don't think it's a tool. I think it is a foundational shift in how we solve problems as humans and therefore is actually more similar to like the internet and like how people should deploy it, that it's gonna completely rewrite the way that we work. And and I and what I see is that sometimes when people think of it as like, and again, different like rev tech, different than Gen AI, maybe like caveat, right? Where because I think I think RevTe, I a hundred, you know, a hundred percent, you know, they they treat it like a tool. And I think for most people, you have to realize don't deploy it if you're not gonna make people change behavior. If it's not about like we're gonna do something different, as opposed to your point, like, well, we deployed it. It's like I think it's the change, but I think we're saying the same thing around change management lift. If you're not ready for the change management lift that's gonna happen, then you're doomed from the start. That that's kind of how I see it. It's like you gotta be able to appreciate that if you're going to deploy this against X, you're you're changing the way that someone has done X for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, I think I think you make a good point. So I think the the thing that I see too is, you know, when you look at, you know, SaaS as an industry, both of us have a ton of experience in. And so like I think you look across SaaS, I think one of the mistakes that I see repeatedly is there is no definition of good. And so they they conclude that activity equals success. It's wrong. You can write the bad email a million times and be unsuccessful. And so I think the key thing is if you're using this capability, there needs to be an understanding or expectation of a check and balance of like, well, what is good out of it? So can AI write emails? Absolutely, can write them at scale that humans can't ever keep up with. Does it mean they're good? Absolutely not. And so, like, there has to be a check and balance to say, okay, what is kind of like an operational QA of like, is this hitting the standard that we want our business and our brand and our team and our customer to interact with? And someone's got to define that because otherwise anything is good. And so I think that's where there's there's a missing kind of check and balance there to say, like, there should be a human in the loop to say, that's right, okay, let's double check this first and from QA standpoint. And then secondarily to your point on the check and balance of the outcome is like, are we driving open rates? Are we driving conversions? Are we driving funnel? Are we driving dollars? If the outcome isn't there, then you need to start back at the beginning and go, well, maybe the things we're doing, albeit faster and more efficient, aren't any good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let's go down. I want to go, let's go down this rabbit hole a little bit and we'll focus on top of funnel because I I do think that this is a good one for a lot of people, because I think for a lot of clients and what you see too, probably Ryan, a lot of the first applications people are thinking about it. And I put gong in a different bucket. Well, unless you're teaming like Gong Engage, is is top of funnel. And it's it, I I did a post on Monday, people were got really upset when I talked about AI replacing SDRs. And the point that I was making was this most companies, to your point, are focused on activities first and outcomes second. And if you are asking your team to send a bunch of templates that are not customized to the sub-industry, customized to the individual, and pulling in specific insights, AI is better than you. AI can out-template you because it can pull in real-time insights on, hey, what are trends for a VP of operations in Marquette, Michigan, around airplane aviation manufacturing parts, right? Where a rep is never going to take the time. AI can at least pull in something that's going to be quasi-relevant and therefore better than your shitty template that says, I help operations leaders achieve this outcome. And so that is what I actually think is the issue, Ryan, is that I think this is actually not an there's an AI component to this that using AI on bad does not equal good. But AI in place of static templates will win. And if your teams are sending static templates and you're not asking, you you hit this on the head, the human in the loop, the only teams we see that are winning at outbound. AI or and my knowledge gets me 80 to 90 percent. And then I put my I put my sauce on it, right? I put my like what I know is like, oh, it's not that value prop, it's actually this stat that's gonna resonate with the ops manager in Marquette, Michigan. And so when it comes to outbound, that's what I'm seeing is AI will if we keep going down the path, AI will replace a lot of SDRs. And it's only the ones that know how to call and have a conversation and who know how to customize better than AI that are gonna win. That's my hot take. My hot take on top of funnel. What about you? No, I I 100% agree.

SPEAKER_01:

And I well, I think where people get maybe emotional about it is that there's a there's a disconnect in that ecosystem. I think it's unfair to characterize all SDRs the same. There are some very strategic, very thoughtful, very high EQ SDRs, and there are people who literally cut and paste all day. And they have the same title. They are not the same capability, the same person. And so I think when you group them all together, I think that's where you get kind of the friction. But I 100% agree, it will outscale you, it'll out-execute you, it'll out-template you, it'll out-generic you every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Where I think that the gap for people that go, okay, but how do I do it better? I think again, it's that human in the loop. Is like, well, are you expecting AI to create the cadence? Then you're making a mistake. AI is not smart enough to know you shouldn't be emailing people Sunday morning. AI is not smart enough to know those things out of the box. Like AI is not smart enough to know that the day after Thanksgiving, you probably shouldn't be hitting people up with a, you know what I mean? Like there's there's gotta be some human check and balance to be like, okay, well, this person just came to our event last night, so we probably should take them out of the cadence. Like, there's gotta be some checks and balance of like human logic. AI is not gonna replace that. The ability to personalize a message and tailor it to nuances and things, it is better than humans, almost across the board. I think there's some that are better than others that I've seen and some of the tools, but like it is just the ability to tailor speech in an effective way, it is unrivaled in. I've never seen anything like it. Now, to your point though, I think it will absolutely replace the capacity constraint that humans place on outreach today.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_01:

But I I do think that the combination of thoughtful strategic guidance for outreach with however many appropriate for your scale, humans leveraging AI will outperform AI on its own and will absolutely outperform humans on its own.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. As usual, if you're getting value out of the episode, thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really, really appreciate you. Make sure to subscribe to the channel. Uh, make sure to to bookmark this if you're listening on the podcast as well, too. And make sure that you share with one friend. That's what I've been trying to ask people. Share with one friend. Everyone's trying to figure it out, this AI thing. I am as well too. I know I appreciate it when people share something with me that helps me to get smarter. So make sure, share, subscribe to the episode, and help to make somebody else smarter as well. For a lot of leaders, you know, they'll come to us and they'll say, you know, Ryan, look, you know, our top of funnel is is struggling, etc. And then you go and you have the conversations. And I think this is the scary part. This is leadership, this is senior leadership. Most of the feedback is, but yeah, this will slow them down and they won't be able to send as many emails. And you go, oh my God. Again, are we talking about outcomes? Like, do you care more about and it's like, how did you pick the activity metric in in the first place? I guarantee it was like, or like this is what I did at my previous job, or it's based on the mean. And the reality is, this is another place I think AI crushes it, which is look, Jake's numbers are this, Ryan's numbers are this. Let me manage to the individual, right? And I think that we're just so a lot of sales leadership manages to the mean. And and and that top performers can't stand it. Bottom performers are like, yeah, whatever, I'll do what you tell me to do.

SPEAKER_01:

And and what doesn't make any sense about that is like, and I'm sure you're no different than I am, I get prospected a dozen to two dozen times a day. LinkedIn, email, text, unfortunately, elsewhere. With all the technology, it's no better than it was five to ten years ago.

SPEAKER_00:

It's worse, outrageous worse durable. It's getting worse. I actually think it's easier to cut through the noise today than it ever has been. Like if you literally show that you've done this much research, you're top one percenter. And and this is what I think it go go back to like early 2010s, or let's even go back, like sales loft outreach 2015. So let's go back literally just 10 years ago. I would argue the outreach in 2013 is way better than the outreach in 2025.

SPEAKER_01:

But but let's dig into that though. So, what's different? One, I think during that period, because I managed North America for Celogen at that time, and I had two people running my business development teams. Weekly coaching. How often does that happen anymore? None. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They good luck. They they reviewed weekly the top performing email. When does that happen? They optimized subject line amongst the team weekly. Like they were doing the work, the real work, which is what works, what's driving outcomes. They weren't just going, well, let's everyone get X number of messages out. I didn't care. I never set, my manager did, but I never personally said as an organization running revenue, I never set an outreach volume goal. I set an outcome goal. I want you to book X number of meetings. If you have to send two messages or two million, I don't care. You have to get the outcome because the outcome is the only way that we progress as a business. That's how people should be managing. The fact they send 20 emails or 30 emails or a million emails doesn't make any difference if they don't convert to dollars at some point.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. And also to do in managing from that, like what we'll do is a lot of our clients is like make what we call it meaningful conversations is the first piece, which is like, look, you've got to connect with three people. So they say, hey, I'm not the right person. I'm gonna connect you with John, or yeah, timing's interesting, but maybe not like now, let's work on booking time. And it, but that's also an outcome, right? And again, to your point, if you if if and then and then with a rep, it's like, look, you're not hitting the outcomes. So now what we need to work it back, right? Now we need to start to work backward on look, it's 20 calls or or whatever. So so let me ask you this. So we're talking about a lot what doesn't work. So what does a healthy AI-powered go-to-market system look like? What are people doing? What works, what doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01:

I I think from what I've seen, it's it's very dependent on leadership, on what their understanding and capability is. I have not seen AI be successfully adopted without pretty experienced leadership. And I think it takes someone that understands how the ecosystem works, that understands the funnel at a deep level, that really understands the components of how you're driving success to optimize and improve the machine. I I think I kind of go back to my like go-to-market architecture like experience. If you don't understand the nuances of that, you'll just keep getting it wrong. And you'll just be you'll just be more efficiently wrong. And so, like a couple examples that I've seen that I think are just best practice. So one is sales reps using a hopefully constrained private GPT for an account, no-brainer. Everyone should be able to query all the data, all the calls, all the transcripts, and go, what did they say about this? What is this? So an executive comes into a meeting and goes, hey, prep me, I gotta go talk to this VP in two minutes. I want to know what I need to talk about and what their hot buttons are. You should be able to just query that and get those answers. That's an easy one, it's a no-brainer, but I don't see it used that often. I think it's pretty rare that's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_00:

Because leaders don't know how. Most leaders know how right they're not investing. And I think this is a really good point. If you are in revenue, you know, we just launched our AI certification program. And um, you know, depending on when you're listening, we you might have to sign up for the next one. But you know, we have 20 plus V from VP to frontline managers in the leadership track, and it's great to see. But I think what happens in leadership is you were successful doing it this way, and and you all and we need to wake up that the way that you did account review in 2020, you know, back when I had the account planning and account strategy, and it's just completely changed. And there's no there is no benefit for you to make people pay the dues because that's how you did it. And I feel like sales is very much a pay your dues culture, and I feel like that is where like leaders are just not taking the time that they need to learn the Gen AI. And like, and then I think there's also a little bit of ego or like what got me here, let's just keep running back the good old times. Yeah. That I feel like it's it's hurting them. Because what you just said is possible today. A lot of you leaders might be listening and go, Wait, you can do that? It's like you could do that about nine months ago.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you know, and I'll give you another example that I've seen that I think is is also kind of low-hanging fruit. Is account research and discovery prep is the most underutilized thing in sales. Discovery is the most important skill, and prep for discovery is the most missed opportunity across the board. The ability with AI to sound like an expert or maybe even be an expert is unparalleled at any point in my career. I remember preparing for meetings, like when I was back selling like responses for like marketers, like, I didn't know shit about the travel industry. I would kind of like, well, I travel too. Like you try to make something anecdotal. You can be an expert on travel in maybe 10 minutes. And an expert in nothing. You could know industry trends. Like, if you actually know what to ask, you can sound like an MBA in any industry with 10 to 15 minutes of preparation.

SPEAKER_00:

We just did this, so you'll you'll appreciate this. So we work with a lot of professional sports teams. So we did a uh uh workshop with shout out to the Pittsburgh Penguins last week, and we had their reps do this. And hey, I'm reaching out to this business, you know, this 26-year-old rep, they don't know what an HVAC company is. So it's like, hey, what are the trends? Here's the company. What are trends for HVAC companies in the greater Pittsburgh area? What's a typical, most likely average customer acquisition cost? What are some potential ways that we might be able to help them grow their business and compare that? And then, and you know, they didn't have it hooked into their CRM, but if you had it hooked in your CRM, compare that to other people that we have. So again, it's a hundred percent spot on that like this. Used to take me, the you'll you'll love this, one of my first jobs. We had an industry trends binder. Like it was literally a binder this thick, and it was like manufacturing, transportation, and and that's how I had to learn to get up to speed. And it took me a year to get up to speed on again. I think you can ramp a rep and like one.

SPEAKER_01:

A testboard to like not that long ago, uh, because I'm guilty of this. I built playbooks as part of winning by design. I did hundreds of them. How many of those had that one screen battle card that somehow was going to summarize like manufacturing? It was like that's right, a couple of data points, whatever. Like, you can't understand management. And manufacturing isn't manufacturing. It's like, well, do you do press manufacturing? Is it plastic injection building? Package good, industrial manufacturing, heavy equipment. But but I think to your point, like back to like kind of this stuck in the past kind of mentality. When you think about like account research in the past, you truncated it out of necessity because you just couldn't go down the rabbit to get the information. You can now summarize, I don't know, a million pages of information in 30 seconds. You can scan through it, you can do a couple deep dives as you go, maybe refine a couple things in a way that just was not possible without AGI. And if you're not thinking that way, you're not to your point customer centric.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're you're I just think don't think at this point you're being customer centric. Like, guys, if AI can automate a lot of the research and prep for your clients, when they talk to a human, if you can't add value, they're not gonna want to keep talking to you. You know, again, I'm talking to sales teams. I go, guys, the future is gonna be if on the front end of the sale, if you can't add incremental value and show that you get it and you know, I just want to go talk to customer success. Like, let me just talk to the solutions engineer and customer success, because that's who I actually need to know. Because I've already done my diligence. Or the scary thing is you just talk to Chat GPT, and if those answers are better than talking to the direct company, you don't ever talk to the company. That's my point. That's why self-service, like every SaaS company, I believe this should have a self-service option for that exact reason. And then I've got a killer onboarding program, but that's a whole other part two here. So so we're almost at time here, and this has been, you know, I think we're definitely gonna have to do a part two because this is this is the like the type of energy that I enjoy. What are you excited about over the next six to 12 months? If you said, Jake, AI-powered seller folks, what is the thing? And I love the two tactical pieces of advice. I think everyone can go run with those two use cases. They're no-brainer use cases, they won't move the needle. Account research, account-based you know, GPTs or projects, if you use you can use projects too in a similar capacity. Yeah. What is the other thing that you say in the next six months, this is what gets me excited?

SPEAKER_01:

I I hope it can get there. I think it's gonna take a bit of prompting, but I think the opportunity to learn about your own business is a missing one. So this is kind of like marketing ops, RevOps, sales ops, like that kind of ecosystem. I think really understanding the nuance of like who are we doing business with and is that different than what's happened in the past? There's a lot of dependencies. One, you gotta have some good data, you got some good data architecture, et cetera. But I think one of the missed opportunities for a lot of organizations is they don't listen enough to what's happening. And so we're still chasing like the enterprise customer, and we don't realize that we haven't sold an enterprise customer in three quarters and we're selling mid-market. Or, like, you know, that's a silly example, but that kind of idea is like, okay, well, this vertical's hot for whatever reason. Let's take care of it back. Let's learn about that, let's market to them. Like, let's double down. And that's one of the feedback that I've been giving over the last, you know, handful of quarters, because it's been a tough time in SaaS, right? Is you need to be double and tripling down on your success. You should be amplifying success. Who's winning in every aspect? How are they winning? Who are they winning with? And let's go do more of that. Don't go into new markets, don't try new things, go find where success is happening and just do more of it. I think that's a missed opportunity. And but I think a lot of organizations need a little bit of hand holding to help them figure that out, especially when you have any scale. You know, that that's a harder answer to get to. If we can do some of that data analysis and kind of summarize it and go, okay, these are your three best verticals. This is what that profile looks like. This is the persona that generally engages with us. I think bubbling that up to the surface would empower revenue leaders in a very tangible way that I think is difficult today.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love that one. I think like that ability to really learn your business and then, you know, just imagine how much smarter we're gonna be to make quick pivots. Do boom, boom. Okay, yeah. Oh, was this a good idea? Nope, not a good idea. Like so much of revenue leadership is gut and just the ability to move toward more database so you can spend more time talking to customers, the right people. Like it's all the things that we, you know, we should want to do. So I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01:

If you do three tests a year, you might do 40. And and across and across the revenue spectrum, that's the other thing is I think missing across every organization I work with is any effective closed loop feedback between different departments. Why are we churning out? Does that go back to sales? Almost never. No. Sale doesn't go back to BD, BD doesn't go back to marketing. It's like, guys, this is a team sport. If people played team sports like this, they would lose every game. You have to talk, like communicate. But I think creating easy ways to bubble up those insights to be able to share. I mean, you could optimize marketing, business development sales in like a quarter, not a year.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, that might, yeah, that might be the quote of the episode. If people play team sports like this, they would lose every single time. So that's it. I I love that quote. I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna steal that. So, hey man, I I love the conversation. This is a great conversation. Oh, I appreciate it. It was great. A lot of tactical advice. And where can people find you? What's the best place to get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, LinkedIn normally, I I try to communicate pretty efficiently there. I get bombarded by messages, but I'm always open to talk to people. I mean, I love this stuff. Like I'm a fixer by nature, so I like wrestling with this stuff. It's fun. And uh yeah, hopefully uh we'll see a lot of cool things. I'm excited to try out you know, some of the stuff that you've launched as well. And um, you know, really I think there's a huge opportunity to apply this stuff in real life. I just think it's gonna be harder than people want it to be, but it's no less transformational. It just means you gotta get your hands dirty a little bit. And so that's right. You just gotta go into it with that point of view.

SPEAKER_00:

Stop thinking. Yeah, for a lot of some of these, it's like you gotta just pick the one use case and just go and stop thinking about what 85 steps down the road looks like. So yeah, just go win one battle for sure. Where yeah, fix one bottleneck. That's what I say. It's like, let's just we can do all this cool stuff later. So, all right, man. Appreciate you, Ryan. Thanks for joining and appreciate everybody for tuning in to this episode of the AI Powered Seller. We'll see you on the next one. Cheers. If you are somebody who is getting serious about this, now is the time. Sign up for our AI certification program that is going live, cohort number two in January. Uh, we're about halfway through cohort one. Uh, we've got a rep track, a leader track. If you don't have the time, you're busy, but you go, Jake, I need to make time. I need like two hours a week where I'm getting up to speed on this. It's six weeks. Sign up for the certification. I promise you, I've got a money back guarantee. If you don't get value out of it, I will more than refund you your money because I'm that confident that this is going to change the way you sell and the way that you lead sales teams.

Head Shot

Jake Dunlap

Co-host